JF-17 Nose Redesign Feasibility?

[ANG]

Hi, I have read in some other threads that the JF-17 Thunder's nose limits the size of its potential radar and hence the range of the radar. Having a longer range radar would be beneficial given some the airplanes this bird might be facing (Su-30, M2K, Mig-29/33).

I am not an engineer, so I was curious as to how feasible and easy it is to redesign the nose to accomadate a larger sized/diameter radar. If you notice the JF-17's nose is very angled/sloped downward. Is it possible to change the angle/slope in order to increase the nose cone diameter without obstructing the pilot's frontal view?

If you recall South Africa redesigned the nose of its Mirage III/V aircraft for the upgraded Cheetah aircraft. This allowed for a larger radar to be incorporated, but also necessitated a slight redesign as the center of gravity shifted.

Also, I kindly please request this discussion not be changed to comparing the JF-17 to any other aircraft or debating how good of an aircraft it is. Thanks!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Hi, I have read in some other threads that the JF-17 Thunder's nose limits the size of its potential radar and hence the range of the radar. Having a longer range radar would be beneficial given some the airplanes this bird might be facing (Su-30, M2K, Mig-29/33).

I am not an engineer, so I was curious as to how feasible and easy it is to redesign the nose to accomadate a larger sized/diameter radar. If you notice the JF-17's nose is very angled/sloped downward. Is it possible to change the angle/slope in order to increase the nose cone diameter without obstructing the pilot's frontal view?

If you recall South Africa redesigned the nose of its Mirage III/V aircraft for the upgraded Cheetah aircraft. This allowed for a larger radar to be incorporated, but also necessitated a slight redesign as the center of gravity shifted.

Also, I kindly please request this discussion not be changed to comparing the JF-17 to any other aircraft or debating how good of an aircraft it is. Thanks!

I don't know but that mirage looks abused

 

[Imran Khan]

mirage looking very ugly yaaaaaaar

 

[ANG]

Hi, the nose of the Cheetah might look ugly, but it housed an extremely powerful radar. In addition, the nose had space for additional avionics and EW systems. The question is still, can the/should the JF-17's nose be changed to accomodate a larger radar? Thanks!

Atlas Cheetah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





Thanks!

 

[jagjitnatt]

I wouldn't suggest a modification to JF-17. A better deal would be a new plane from scratch. Radar is not the only thing that is average in JF-17. But if you keep changing everything, you'll ruin its basic purpose ie. low cost fighter.


Also a single radar won't do the trick, radar on the tail and wings also would be required for better detection, but that would increase costs a lot.

So its good the way it is.

 

[Aslan]

I wouldn't suggest a modification to JF-17. A better deal would be a new plane from scratch. Radar is not the only thing that is average in JF-17. But if you keep changing everything, you'll ruin its basic purpose ie. low cost fighter.


Also a single radar won't do the trick, radar on the tail and wings also would be required for better detection, but that would increase costs a lot.

So its good the way it is.

Wouldn't it be better to modify what you have rather then redeveloping something completely new. And also please elaborate what else is average on the plane. Thanks.

 

[TaimiKhan]

As for its size, JF-17s nose is fine and it can host a radar which again for its size is good enough. Its nose had already been redesigned. It was about 600mm in the Pt-1 to 03, but in Pt-04, it got to 640mm, nearly same size as a M2K.

So for now, no need, but yeah if the current design of JF-17 is carried forward and a larger variant is designed or brought into production, we can see a larger nose cone too, but for now, its good compared to its size.

In our ROSE upgraded Mirages also, the nose cones were changed to accommodate a larger antenna.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

With advancement in technology the radar size is going down , and companies are putting radars on UAV etc ... so I don't think we should have problem of size for the nose etc in future

Anything but a plastic surgery

 

[TaimiKhan]

This picture may give you a good idea of the nose, the the first picture above seems distorted, not giving the right shape.

 

[Kompromat]

I wouldn't suggest a modification to JF-17. A better deal would be a new plane from scratch. Radar is not the only thing that is average in JF-17. But if you keep changing everything, you'll ruin its basic purpose ie. low cost fighter.


Also a single radar won't do the trick, radar on the tail and wings also would be required for better detection, but that would increase costs a lot.

So its good the way it is.

Sardar ji i hope your Military is not taking your advice while developing new systems or i bet they would be Doomed !

Have you Ever had a chance to get near to a Thunder ?
I believe no , so let me tell you the words of those who have followed every single step of the birth of this air craft and test flown it.

Thunder is "Custom built" to meet "our" very own needs so it is designed in a way that it can accomodate and absorb future upgrades.

Ie , It is a modular design which ensures that it will accomodate a new type of engine.

As far as the nose is concerned tell me sardar ji "Why the hell we were looking for RC-400" if we feard that we couldn't fit it in the nose of this air craft.


Nose "would be" redesigned in future variants beyond 50 Air crafts along with more structural changes too which will balance any modifications made to the airframe as a whole.

We will Install a new Engine possibaly upto 100KTN Thurst and sardar ji you know if the Engine would get its power increase it surely will increase the payload capacity and would need a redesign.

Here is a little comperison.

F-16 Prototype.

F-16 Block 60.

Now you tell me why US has not Built a Brand new Air craft from the scratch to accomodate the AESA radar in Block 60?

We are going to do the same with the nose when Required.

Stop talking nonsense Man !

 

[Avatar]

Again you are comparing Thunder with F22

I am comparing USA's financial situation with that of Pakistan.. and you should thank me for not mentioning the kerry lugar bill

Any Proofs to that ?

Have you ever saw an F-16 in your Whole Life ? , Dont tell us what is the difference between F-16 A/B - C/D - E/F , we know this thing in and out !

The prototype has undergone immense changes with time. Even a layman would understand that the only real resemblance would be the airframe to a certain extent, most other components are updated/upgraded with time and the airframe is modified to suit the upgrades (like the wider nose). Hence it is almost a completely new aircraft (compared to the prototype)

Also, there are thousands of F-16's in the world and F-16's still have a good market. USA is leading in aviation technology and it has the funds, willingness and customers to make upgrades.

Considering that China is not using JF-17's at all, I guess they would want to focus their brains elsewhere. (Such as J-11 with striking resemblance to Su-27)

Also considering only about 300 JF 17's shall be acquired by PAF and no other customer is available, it becomes uneconomical to R&D because a new fighter comes from 15 million dollars.. hence the upgrades need to cost relatively less.

The IAF Mirage 2000 upgrade is costing around 40 million dollars per jet.. and IAF surely knows what it is doing. JF-17 will never be "state of the art" given the budget restrictions.. and if you dont have budget restrictions then why buy JF-17s at all ?

As simple as that.

 

[Aslan]

I am comparing USA's financial situation with that of Pakistan.. and you should thank me for not mentioning the kerry lugar bill


Why is it a pain in the rear for you guys when ever we are discussing the Thunder you bring in your crap and start trolling. I would suggest you guys to look into your own history and see how India was at one time close to bankruptcy. This thread is in no way to talk about your crap one idiot came in and trolled and now the alarm bells went off in all the call centers and the trolls from trolistan will all be here bestowing they garbage here.


The prototype has undergone immense changes with time. Even a layman would understand that the only real resemblance would be the airframe to a certain extent, most other components are updated/upgraded with time and the airframe is modified to suit the upgrades (like the wider nose). Hence it is almost a completely new aircraft (compared to the prototype)

Also, there are thousands of F-16's in the world and F-16's still have a good market. USA is leading in aviation technology and it has the funds, willingness and customers to make upgrades.

Considering that China is not using JF-17's at all, I guess they would want to focus their brains elsewhere. (Such as J-11 with striking resemblance to Su-27)

Also considering only about 300 JF 17's shall be acquired by PAF and no other customer is available, it becomes uneconomical to R&D because a new fighter comes from 15 million dollars.. hence the upgrades need to cost relatively less.

The IAF Mirage 2000 upgrade is costing around 40 million dollars per jet.. and IAF surely knows what it is doing. JF-17 will never be "state of the art" given the budget restrictions.. and if you dont have budget restrictions then why buy JF-17s at all ?

As simple as that.

Let there be no other customers for thunder we are not complaining, come back and brag about it when you guys will finish your plane. The might kite teja. BB was only making a comparison to give an example to another genius .

 

[Kompromat]

The prototype has undergone immense changes with time. Even a layman would understand that the only real resemblance would be the airframe to a certain extent, most other components are updated/upgraded with time and the airframe is modified to suit the upgrades (like the wider nose). Hence it is almost a completely new aircraft (compared to the prototype)

Thanks for Understanding the Common sense.

Also, there are thousands of F-16's in the world and F-16's still have a good market. USA is leading in aviation technology and it has the funds, willingness and customers to make upgrades.

As i said we know F-16 in and out !!

Considering that China is not using JF-17's at all,

Indians had really good info about J-10 being in service for 4 years before it was even revealed !

JF-17 would be in PLAAF service soon.

I guess they would want to focus their brains elsewhere. (Such as J-11 with striking resemblance to Su-27)

Its a highly upgraded Variant of Su-27 , is it too hard to understand ?

Also considering only about 300 JF 17's shall be acquired by PAF and no other customer is available, it becomes uneconomical to R&D because a new fighter comes from 15 million dollars.. hence the upgrades need to cost relatively less.

What an ignorant:
Egypt is intrested in buying 200 Thunders.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/49325-egypt-mulls-jf-17-co-production.html

Azarbaijan to buy 26 Thunders.

APA - Azerbaijan to buy JF-17 aircrafts from Pakistan

18 countries have been intrested in Thunders.

The IAF Mirage 2000 upgrade is costing around 40 million dollars per jet.. and IAF surely knows what it is doing.

Equallant to an SU-30 MKI price , that is Stupid !

JF-17 will never be "state of the art" given the budget restrictions.. and if you dont have budget restrictions then why buy JF-17s at all ?

As simple as that.

All right Mr Idiot

 

[Aslan]

BB I have a question can rather then changing the shape of the nose or any thing the radar be pushed a bit deeper into the body bay making some room on the plane proper then the nose. I hope you understand what I am asking as I dont know a better way to put the Q together.

 

[Kompromat]

BB I have a question can rather then changing the shape of the nose or any thing the radar be pushed a bit deeper into the body bay making some room on the plane proper then the nose. I hope you understand what I am asking as I dont know a better way to put the Q together.

Khalid , i understand what you are saying but it still will need a Redesign.

We are going to redesign it anway for an AESA radar , Vixen 500E AESA was offered to us but we may buy VIXEN-1000E AESA which will be on board Gripen NG.

So yes the Nose would be redesigned if required.