Pak Marines Forgotten force

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The Pakistan coast guard isn’t our coast guard force, it’s the PMSA, it’s not a burden on anything but a very necessary force. The PCG (which FYI is a branch of another force and not an independent, this means it doesn’t have its own budget either) is just a coast guard in name, all the usual tasks of the coast guard of a nation fall under our PMSA. Please look up their roles and legal position. Bottom line is, there is only one coast guard force in Pakistan, and that’s the PMSA. It is and will remain significantly more important for us than The marines and the coast guard and it makes a lot of sense to put money into it.


And why exactly should we take funding away from the army, which is trained and equipped to do exactly all of this, and give it to the marines, which will not only be less effective in fully land based ops in Sindh than the army, but will also need significantly more money to train and plan for what the army already has been doing for decades.

That’s why this proposal makes absolutely no sense. If anything disbanding the marines and giving their funding to the navy makes more sense in our case because we have no amphibious assaults or invasions planned (simply because they’re impossible).

Not to mention it’ll just create another force that’ll have zero synergy with all the other forces and just get in their way. Why make two forces both of which will now do a half assed job instead of investing properly in one? Who’ll give us the money to give the marines tanks, APCs and IFVs when the army itself struggles to afford them?

Be realistic for once, the marines are perfectly fine as they are, covering their limited AOR near Sir creek and the Arabian region. They’ve already been significantly expanded and re-equipped recently anyways, and that process is continuing further as the navy grows.

IMO the entire paramilitary thing is inefficient.

I think the right model is to collapse the Rangers, FC, etc, into a 'National Guard' that operates as a reserve of the Army. Basically, an appendage to the Army that reports under GHQ, but with very specific mandates. These mandates can include COIN/CT, internal security, border control, etc.

I understand that the MoI's role on this is basically on paper and that, functionally speaking, the paramilitary forces operate under GHQ. However, the bureaucracy on paper is still creating an unnecessary mess. If we follow the US model of placing a united National Guard under the Army directly, we could achieve a lot of synergy -- e.g. COs, JCOs and NCOs can transition back-and-forth; common equipment (including MRAPs, helicopters, etc); tighter coordination when involving artillery and armour, drone use and so on.

My suspicion is that if we take the "efficient" approach, it results in fewer socio-economic opportunities for the less well-off. For our leaders, stuffing people into various public sector jobs (be it bureaucracy or paramilitary) is easier than worrying about developing the economy. If done right, you wouldn't need more than 100,000 well-equipped and trained soldiers in the National Guard, for example. You couple that with an 'Air Reserve Force' under the PAF with turboprop COIN/CT aircraft, drones, airlifters, etc, then it's a wrap IMO.

We technically have a precedent for this approach: the Maritime Security Agency. It basically is an appendage to the Pakistan Navy but carries out specific functions related to policing waters and so on. The Marines are another branch within that overall framework. The PN is likely still learning or grasping the value of their Marines would be, so it'll be a while before we see it "click" and roll them with the exact right equipment.

 

[Zarvan]

Rotate a PM brigade on LOC for 6 monthly deployment ?

Yes why not. If you go ahead and increase their size and equip them with Tanks and other weapons then why not deploy them on LOC also. My point is increase them in their size equip them and turn them into a strike corps.

 

[Signalian]

Yes why not. If you go ahead and increase their size and equip them with Tanks and other weapons then why not deploy them on LOC also. My point is increase them in their size equip them and turn them into a strike corps.

Marines are expeditionary force or at least supposed to be in Pakistan's case. This means they should go places - beaches, deserts, jungles, mountains, snow peaks, riverine, swamps- basically everywhere. Even if they are kept as light forces meaning no MBTs or howitzers, they should still be able to perform multiple types of mission roles in different terrains. There was a talk of sending PA SSG into Afghanistan to rout TTP. Why wouldn't PM be a more suitable option ? In Pakistan's case, PM are on sentry duty. Protect shoreline, protect installations, patrol the swamps, provide static AD duties and in some cases assault ships if SSG (N) isn't in the scene.

In a practically ideal scenario, even if Marines aren't formed into a Strike Corps type of formation with armor, mech infantry, artillery, AD, engineers, signals etc, they can be trained on the lines of Army's LCB concept. Then they can be deployed all over Pakistan in company strength formations (100-150 troops) led by Lt. Comd. This would ensure that they at least possess air assault, CQB and AT training in their doctrine. These skills can then bring their name in all SF Ops which LCB performs.

Another thing, I opened a thread about Pakistan operating a foreign military base. It can be based in any friendly country however, its best suited in countries which have borders with India, e.g Myanmar and ports like Sri Lanka or Morocco or Malaysia. You see when you talked about forming a Marines Strike Corps, members here said that marines expansion or another Corps in Sindh isnt required, fair enough, it may hold merit, but remember Marines are an expeditionary force. Pakistan has stationed units in KSA. Pakistani forces didn't part in Saud-Yemen conflict but Pakistan could have sent forces to Turkey to form a military alliance. Now squeezing out troops from Army deployed in critical sectors like LOC, or borders isn't feasible. Some reserve formations are rotated for COIN war, a never ending war, at least the end is not in sight. Pakistan wont ever send Rangers or FC abroad, although they do go UN missions with Army. Its worth noting that KSA doesn't deploy troops in Pakistan except on training mission but Pakistan let USA take over Shamsi Airbase.

So if Pakistan expands Marines, where could Pakistan deploy them:
1. Rotation on LOC to relieve Army and NG battalions.
2. QRF on lines with LCB. in any cantonment or any city where Navy presides.
3. A military base abroad. Even in KSA to protect Mecca and Medina.
4. Sent out to any friendly country like Turkey to take part in Military Ops.
5. To conduct a military Ops in foreign/hostile country e.g. Afghanistan

 

[Zarvan]

Marines are expeditionary force or at least supposed to be in Pakistan's case. This means they should go places - beaches, deserts, jungles, mountains, snow peaks, riverine, swamps- basically everywhere. Even if they are kept as light forces meaning no MBTs or howitzers, they should still be able to perform multiple types of mission roles in different terrains. There was a talk of sending PA SSG into Afghanistan to rout TTP. Why wouldn't PM be a more suitable option ? In Pakistan's case, PM are on sentry duty. Protect shoreline, protect installations, patrol the swamps, provide static AD duties and in some cases assault ships if SSG (N) isn't in the scene.

In a practically ideal scenario, even if Marines aren't formed into a Strike Corps type of formation with armor, mech infantry, artillery, AD, engineers, signals etc, they can be trained on the lines of Army's LCB concept. Then they can be deployed all over Pakistan in company strength formations (100-150 troops) led by Lt. Comd. This would ensure that they at least possess air assault, CQB and AT training in their doctrine. These skills can then bring their name in all SF Ops which LCB performs.

Another thing, I opened a thread about Pakistan operating a foreign military base. It can be based in any friendly country however, its best suited in countries which have borders with India, e.g Myanmar and ports like Sri Lanka or Morocco or Malaysia. You see when you talked about forming a Marines Strike Corps, members here said that marines expansion or another Corps in Sindh isnt required, fair enough, it may hold merit, but remember Marines are an expeditionary force. Pakistan has stationed units in KSA. Pakistani forces didn't part in Saud-Yemen conflict but Pakistan could have sent forces to Turkey to form a military alliance. Now squeezing out troops from Army deployed in critical sectors like LOC, or borders isn't feasible. Some reserve formations are rotated for COIN war, a never ending war, at least the end is not in sight. Pakistan wont ever send Rangers or FC abroad, although they do go UN missions with Army. Its worth noting that KSA doesn't deploy troops in Pakistan except on training mission but Pakistan let USA take over Shamsi Airbase.

So if Pakistan expands Marines, where could Pakistan deploy them:
1. Rotation on LOC to relieve Army and NG battalions.
2. QRF on lines with LCB. in any cantonment or any city where Navy presides.
3. A military base abroad. Even in KSA to protect Mecca and Medina.
4. Sent out to any friendly country like Turkey to take part in Military Ops.
5. To conduct a military Ops in foreign/hostile country e.g. Afghanistan

Agreed. We should be open to new ideas. And turning Marines into a pretty much an Army headed by a Lt General who will be under Navy. And we use them in lot of places. Yes we have budget issues right now. But as things improve doing this would be a great great idea in my opinion. This is my opinion.

 

[Falconless]

Use them for UN peace keeping missions together with the army?

 

[HRK]

national guards sa inka koi relation nhi ha

this is what his suggestion is ....

 

[S.Y.A]

This question is similar to the question If someone raise objection about the existence of FC and Rangers while we do have Army ....

simple answer to your question is Pakistan Coast Guards fall under the category of Civil Armed Forces same as FC KPK and Balochistan or Sindh and Punjab Rangers and it is part of Ministry of Interior. Its role is also limited to the specific areas mention in Pakistan Coast Guard Act 1973

OTOH PMSA fall under Ministry of Defence [Link] and responsible for the implementation of National and International Laws at Sea from Contiguous Zone till Exclusive Economic Zone

In simple words CG are more of a Land Force then Seagoing Pakistan Maritime Security Agency.

still useless to have coast guard. msa is policing the sea, so it should have the authority to police the coast as well. nothing but useless redundancy.

 

[Super Falcon]

Yes why not. If you go ahead and increase their size and equip them with Tanks and other weapons then why not deploy them on LOC also. My point is increase them in their size equip them and turn them into a strike corps.

Yes with currrent equipment they r useless force

 

[S.Y.A]

There is such a large amount of PA assets holed up at karachi that are more than enough to cover the entire southern region

one corps at karachi, vs 4 corps at lahore, gujranwala, mangla, and rawapindi, peshawar is close by as well. what are you talking about? there is wayyyy more presence in the north as compared to the south.

 

[hoopoe]

one of the tasks of pak marines is to neutralise enemy’s foreign naval bases operating in ME and Africa when the time comes

 

[Super Falcon]

one of the tasks of pak marines is to neutralise enemy’s foreign naval bases operating in ME and Africa when the time comes

They dont have required equipment just few hovercraft

 

[Signalian]

one of the tasks of pak marines is to neutralise enemy’s foreign naval bases operating in ME and Africa when the time comes

That's reasonable thinking but probably wishful. SF are sent behind enemy lines (BEL) or places out of reach of conventional forces..

 

[S.Y.A]

OP is Sindhi nationalist he wants to strengthen marines because he thinks it is Sindhi force and army is Punjabi

tf?! where did that come from?

 

[Falconless]

OP is Sindhi nationalist he wants to strengthen marines because he thinks it is Sindhi force and army is Punjabi

Bruh

still useless to have coast guard. msa is policing the sea, so it should have the authority to police the coast as well. nothing but useless redundancy.

Coast Guard and MSA merger needs to happen ASAP!

 

[farooqbhai007]

Bruh

Coast Guard and MSA merger needs to happen ASAP!

Do you even know what their jobs or assets are . Just doing the occasional we need to get this asap thing again
Coast guard il has barely a few small boats and is basically ANF and they only operate along within a few miles of the coast.
PMSA on the other hand is larger force equipped with vessels for long range patrolling as well as aircraft and their job is protect civilian , naval assets as well as do any rescue at sea ops and capture any illegal vessels.